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Topic: The View
Posted By: HollyRock
Subject: The View
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2008 at 4:20pm

I can't find an existing thread here, on The View.

I find it hard to believe that no one has talked about it yet....
 
So here goes:
 
The View is getting more ridiculous these days.  I am currently hating Elizabeth Hasselbeck, the most.  She's making me hate Republicans, as a species.
 
My apologies to the Republicans who may be reading this.  I don't hate you, specifically.  But Elizabeth Hasselbeck, on The View, isn't doing your party any favors.
 
I want her to just shut up. Angry


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Let's try not to be boring, mkay?



Replies:
Posted By: shadow
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2008 at 4:42pm
Where I work, I call our office the view.
I work with all women and let me tell you.........Unhappy

Back on topic:
I cannot believe that this show is still on the air.
I guess it fits right in there with daytime tv.


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was feeling nostalgic


Posted By: Thor
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2008 at 5:07pm
Originally posted by HollyRock HollyRock wrote:

 

 
My apologies to the Republicans who may be reading this.  I don't hate you, specifically.  But Elizabeth Hasselbeck, on The View, isn't doing your party any favors.
 
I want her to just shut up. Angry
 
Don't feel bad.  I find Joy Behar to be a foul, stupid pig.  And talk about visually repulsive...
 
 
 
 


Posted By: HollyRock
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2008 at 5:54pm
That's funny - Joy doesn't bug me at all.  I think she's funny and she has a cute hairdo.
 
Elizabeth continues to sling "what about Barack Obama?!?!" whenever anyone says anything about McCain, only she never backs it up with anything of substance.  She also never get around to actually defending McCain - not that I've noticed.
 
The most irritatating thing, about all of them, is that they get riled up and speak over each other, making it nearly impossible to decipher what any one of them is saying.
 
Shadow has a good point - why is this show even still on the air?
 
Although - Sara Silverman was on today.  She was funny.


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Let's try not to be boring, mkay?


Posted By: ForumAdmin
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2008 at 6:34pm
Cackling Hen Hour.
These women aren't qualified to talk about ANYTHING on the air. It's pathetic.
ESPECIALLY Sherri Shepherd who is downright DUMB.


Posted By: Hezadancer
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2008 at 8:06pm
Originally posted by NathanAlexander NathanAlexander wrote:

Cackling Hen Hour.


Exactly what I thought when I saw this thread! I was going to try and find a video of the Family Guy clip of the View, but I'm having trouble finding it. All the ladies are standing around squawking like chickens. Then one lays an egg and they all squawk contently.


Posted By: BrianO
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2008 at 8:37pm
That 'talking over each other' crap is too much! Do the 'View Shrews' model that from the way women tend to speak/shriek when they're in groups of friends, or vice versa?


Posted By: shadow
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2008 at 9:40pm
A random act of violence on the set would be fun.
Say, a person runs by and smacks one of them with a mackerel.
The others could debate on it.


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was feeling nostalgic


Posted By: BrianO
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2008 at 9:50pm
"Which smells worse, the mackerel or Joy Behar?"LOL


Posted By: PaWolf
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2008 at 11:22pm
There is a time, there is a place, and there is a show for everyone.
I simply have no interest in knowing anyone this show exists for.
Shame on Whoopie.


Posted By: Hootman
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2008 at 11:35pm
My wife records this show and watches it after she gets home from work. She says it clears her mind as the inane conversation goes on.

I go to my office and go online to this site and view the "Flame Room". 


Posted By: PaWolf
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2008 at 11:49pm

My apologies, Hooty - certainly would love to meet the Hootette - she's exempt from my comment.

My wife watches soap operas to cleanse her mind...(filthy thing!)
 
My mind is blank - I just come here...


Posted By: Spicy_Meatball
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2008 at 1:46am
Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

Originally posted by HollyRock HollyRock wrote:

 

 
My apologies to the Republicans who may be reading this.  I don't hate you, specifically.  But Elizabeth Hasselbeck, on The View, isn't doing your party any favors.
 
I want her to just shut up. Angry
 
Don't feel bad.  I find Joy Behar to be a foul, stupid pig.  And talk about visually repulsive...
 
 
 
 
 
Shocked  Bit harsh there, Thor?  Do you watch "The View" daily?  She's actually one of the brighter bulbs on the panel.  I watch just for Joy's seering comments.  She adds spice to the show.  As does Whoopi.  "Scary" Shephard is just too ridiculous to be true.  She actually has to stop and think whether the earth is round or flat, and actually believes the story of Noah's Ark!  LOLLOLLOL


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"Mama Mia! That's a spicy meatball!!" ~~Alka Seltzer Ad


Posted By: Ad nauseous
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2008 at 2:29am
Originally posted by shadow shadow wrote:

A random act of violence on the set would be fun.
Say, a person runs by and smacks one of them with a mackerel.
The others could debate on it.



LOL

Is it me or does the "V" in the logo represent something other than a letter???? was that intentional????





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One good thing about TV-you could always turn it off


Posted By: BrianO
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2008 at 4:39pm
The Vacuousness and Vapidity of the panelists!


Posted By: Thor
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2008 at 5:22pm
Originally posted by Spicy_Meatball Spicy_Meatball wrote:

Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

Originally posted by HollyRock HollyRock wrote:

 

 
My apologies to the Republicans who may be reading this.  I don't hate you, specifically.  But Elizabeth Hasselbeck, on The View, isn't doing your party any favors.
 
I want her to just shut up. Angry
 
Don't feel bad.  I find Joy Behar to be a foul, stupid pig.  And talk about visually repulsive...
 
 
 
 
 
Shocked  Bit harsh there, Thor?  Do you watch "The View" daily? 
 
No, and no.
 
Joy Behar is actually even less appealing than Rita Cosby.  I picture them both hanging out at the Embassy Suites happy hour, getting drunk on wine, laughing loudly, and hooking up with any 60 y/o man with a wedding ring and a Rolex watch.
 
 
 
 


Posted By: Jimbo
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2008 at 6:10pm
Originally posted by HollyRock HollyRock wrote:

I can't find an existing thread here, on The View.

I find it hard to believe that no one has talked about it yet....
 
So here goes:
 
The View is getting more ridiculous these days.  I am currently hating Elizabeth Hasselbeck, the most.  She's making me hate Republicans, as a species.
 
My apologies to the Republicans who may be reading this.  I don't hate you, specifically.  But Elizabeth Hasselbeck, on The View, isn't doing your party any favors.
 
I want her to just shut up. Angry
 
Nobody talks about it because nobody watches it. Wink
 
But I couldn't agree more with you about that Elizabeth nitwit.
 
She is nothing but the boob-jobbed airhead wife of some second string pro-athlete who got her job because of her fake boobs & her husband's sports noteriety.
 
She is living proof of the axiom "beauty is only skin deep".
 


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...the ads take aim and lay their claim to the heart and the soul of the spender
Jackson Browne - The Pretender

C'mon, man!
Joe Biden - 46th President of the United States


Posted By: Jimbo
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2008 at 6:16pm
Originally posted by Spicy_Meatball Spicy_Meatball wrote:

Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

Originally posted by HollyRock HollyRock wrote:

My apologies to the Republicans who may be reading this.  I don't hate you, specifically.  But Elizabeth Hasselbeck, on The View, isn't doing your party any favors.

 
I want her to just shut up. Angry 
 
Don't feel bad.  I find Joy Behar to be a foul, stupid pig.  And talk about visually repulsive...
 
Shocked  Bit harsh there, Thor?  Do you watch "The View" daily?  She's actually one of the brighter bulbs on the panel.  I watch just for Joy's seering comments.  She adds spice to the show.  As does Whoopi.  "Scary" Shephard is just too ridiculous to be true.  She actually has to stop and think whether the earth is round or flat, and actually believes the story of Noah's Ark!  LOLLOLLOL 
 
You can't take such comments out of Thor seriously. He only says stuff like that as payback for negative things said about conservatives. It's like..."You said something bad about a conservative, so I'm going to say something even worse about a liberal.", even though he knows damn good & well it's not true.
 
Thor knows that Elizabeth gal is an empty headed, dull-minded ding-a-ling, but he could never admit it because he has established himself as the resident defender of conservatism. Wink
 
 
 


-------------
...the ads take aim and lay their claim to the heart and the soul of the spender
Jackson Browne - The Pretender

C'mon, man!
Joe Biden - 46th President of the United States


Posted By: BrianO
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2008 at 7:49pm

The fact that Elizabeth Hasselbeck would take the money to be on that bitchfest, knowing that she'd be the butt of most of the jokes/criticism from the cast and audience, tells me that she's just in it for the self-promotion.



Posted By: shadow
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2008 at 9:24pm
It seems many tv personalities are attention whores to begin with.
Perhaps it is a prerequisite for acting.

Self promotion feeds that need.


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was feeling nostalgic


Posted By: Skippy
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2008 at 11:02pm
Originally posted by Spicy_Meatball Spicy_Meatball wrote:

Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

Originally posted by HollyRock HollyRock wrote:

 

 
My apologies to the Republicans who may be reading this.  I don't hate you, specifically.  But Elizabeth Hasselbeck, on The View, isn't doing your party any favors.
 
I want her to just shut up. Angry
 
Don't feel bad.  I find Joy Behar to be a foul, stupid pig.  And talk about visually repulsive...
 
 
 
 
 
Shocked  Bit harsh there, Thor?  Do you watch "The View" daily?  She's actually one of the brighter bulbs on the panel.  I watch just for Joy's seering comments.  She adds spice to the show.  As does Whoopi.  "Scary" Shephard is just too ridiculous to be true.  She actually has to stop and think whether the earth is round or flat, and actually believes the story of Noah's Ark!  LOLLOLLOL
 
 
 
There you go again with your hateful intolerance towards religionAngry


Posted By: Hootman
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2008 at 12:18am
Skib, you think Noah's ark actually existed?


Posted By: anankha
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2008 at 12:54am
I like The View(somewhat) but I agree with you on Elizabeth Hasselback(sp?). She's so annoying. I also hate Sherri Shepherd.  She's really not all that smart.


Posted By: Spicy_Meatball
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2008 at 1:16am
Originally posted by Skibibbles Skibibbles wrote:

Originally posted by Spicy_Meatball Spicy_Meatball wrote:

Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

Originally posted by HollyRock HollyRock wrote:

 

 
My apologies to the Republicans who may be reading this.  I don't hate you, specifically.  But Elizabeth Hasselbeck, on The View, isn't doing your party any favors.
 
I want her to just shut up. Angry
 
Don't feel bad.  I find Joy Behar to be a foul, stupid pig.  And talk about visually repulsive...
 
 
 
 
 
Shocked  Bit harsh there, Thor?  Do you watch "The View" daily?  She's actually one of the brighter bulbs on the panel.  I watch just for Joy's seering comments.  She adds spice to the show.  As does Whoopi.  "Scary" Shephard is just too ridiculous to be true.  She actually has to stop and think whether the earth is round or flat, and actually believes the story of Noah's Ark!  LOLLOLLOL
 
 
 
There you go again with your hateful intolerance towards religionAngry
 
I hardly think that my being amused at the people who take the bible's more ridiculous "stories" as truth is being "hateful".   So spare me your "maddy faced" smilie because using it shows you have the same intolerance you accused me of.   Some of us do not believe in the utter nonsense written and re-written by supersititious, ancient, and probably very drunk people. Belly of a whale, pillars of salt, arks with a pair of every animal on it,  aged women giving birth.  Yep sorry...it frightens me to think people believe in these things but won't allow their kids to participate in Halloween activities!  But I will say the bible is a great work of fiction!  Sadly though most religious people I know have never read it.  Wink 


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"Mama Mia! That's a spicy meatball!!" ~~Alka Seltzer Ad


Posted By: Spicy_Meatball
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2008 at 2:25am
Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

Originally posted by Spicy_Meatball Spicy_Meatball wrote:

Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

Originally posted by HollyRock HollyRock wrote:

 

 
My apologies to the Republicans who may be reading this.  I don't hate you, specifically.  But Elizabeth Hasselbeck, on The View, isn't doing your party any favors.
 
I want her to just shut up. Angry
 
Don't feel bad.  I find Joy Behar to be a foul, stupid pig.  And talk about visually repulsive...
 
 
 
 
 
Shocked  Bit harsh there, Thor?  Do you watch "The View" daily? 
 
No, and no.
 
Joy Behar is actually even less appealing than Rita Cosby.  I picture them both hanging out at the Embassy Suites happy hour, getting drunk on wine, laughing loudly, and hooking up with any 60 y/o man with a wedding ring and a Rolex watch.
 
 
 
 
 
Hmmm.  Well Joy doesn't pretend to be a journalist or court reporter.  She's just a stand-up comic and writer who makes for an interesting host or co-host.  Joy's been married and divorced and has been a relationship with a nice man for over 20 years.  If you don't watch "The View" or really know who Joy Behar is, I just don't get the "foul, stupid pig" comment.   She isn't any of those things.  


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"Mama Mia! That's a spicy meatball!!" ~~Alka Seltzer Ad


Posted By: Ad nauseous
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2008 at 2:36am
Originally posted by BrianO BrianO wrote:

The Vacuousness and Vapidity of the panelists!


close.

but think more like a depiction of something...y'know....

forget it maybe it's just me.

I'm thinking too much.

it's too skinny to be that.


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One good thing about TV-you could always turn it off


Posted By: Jimbo
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2008 at 3:26am
Originally posted by Spicy_Meatball Spicy_Meatball wrote:

Some of us do not believe in the utter nonsense written and re-written by supersititious, ancient, and probably very drunk people. Belly of a whale, pillars of salt, arks with a pair of every animal on it,  aged women giving birth. 
 
Oh & I suppose next you're going to tell us you don't believe the story about a burning talking bush or five thousand people being fed with two fishes & five loaves of bread, or parting the sea, or walking on water either.
 
I can't imagine how anyone might doubt such things.
 
 


-------------
...the ads take aim and lay their claim to the heart and the soul of the spender
Jackson Browne - The Pretender

C'mon, man!
Joe Biden - 46th President of the United States


Posted By: Thor
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2008 at 3:45am
Originally posted by Spicy_Meatball Spicy_Meatball wrote:

 
I hardly think that my being amused at the people who take the bible's more ridiculous "stories" as truth is being "hateful".   So spare me your "maddy faced" smilie because using it shows you have the same intolerance you accused me of.   Some of us do not believe in the utter nonsense written and re-written by supersititious, ancient, and probably very drunk people. Belly of a whale, pillars of salt, arks with a pair of every animal on it,  aged women giving birth.  Yep sorry...it frightens me to think people believe in these things but won't allow their kids to participate in Halloween activities!  But I will say the bible is a great work of fiction!  Sadly though most religious people I know have never read it.  Wink 
 
LOLLOL
 
Spicy, I don't think you'll find too many Christians who believe that stuff literally.  Where have you been getting your knowledge of Christianity---from The View?  LOL
 
Unless you at least have some knowledge of Christianity or bother to look this stuff up, I don't get your "utter nonsense" comment.  Wink
 
 


Posted By: HollyRock
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2008 at 1:18pm

Sorry for the length of the clip - but if you have 7 minutes it's pretty interesting.

At around 3:50 Bill Maher might be implying that Elizabeth H and Sherri Shephard are "irrational."

At 6:20ish Sherri challenges Bill to talk to God, because she does and He answers back.

Personally, I think it's a shame that TV personalities with extreme interpretations make Christianity look dumb.  It's insulting to rational Christians.



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Let's try not to be boring, mkay?


Posted By: Thor
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2008 at 3:15pm
I like Bill Maher.  Smart, funny guy.  But I think the unquestioning dismissal of the existence of God, is as irrational as the unquestioning acceptance of God.  There should be doubt on both sides. 
 
I also think that the reason people in highly-populated areas tend to believe in God less than those in more rural areas, is that everything around them is man-made.  That's just my theory.
 
But, whereas Maher seems basically respectful , Behar comes across to me as snide, condescending, sarcastic, dismissive, and superior.  Not just in this clip, but in other clips I've seen of her, as well.
 
And to anyone who thinks I dislike her based on her political views---well, I don't feel the same way about Whoopi, who I also like.
 
 
 


Posted By: Jimbo
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2008 at 3:16pm
I find it rather disturbing myself when people say God "speaks to them".
 
How in the hell do they know if it's God speaking to them or their own mind telling  them what they want to hear? Or even what they don't want to hear?
 
The whole idea is absurd.
 


-------------
...the ads take aim and lay their claim to the heart and the soul of the spender
Jackson Browne - The Pretender

C'mon, man!
Joe Biden - 46th President of the United States


Posted By: Jimbo
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2008 at 3:19pm
Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

 But, whereas Maher seems basically respectful , Behar comes across to me as snide, condescending, sarcastic, dismissive, and superior.
 
I think that's just her trying to be the "typical New Yorker".
 
In other words, her "shtick".
 
 
 


-------------
...the ads take aim and lay their claim to the heart and the soul of the spender
Jackson Browne - The Pretender

C'mon, man!
Joe Biden - 46th President of the United States


Posted By: Thor
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2008 at 3:23pm
Yeah, probably.  But that's so old.  It's even more cliche than Jeff Foxworthy, who at least mocks redneckery as much as he celebrates it.
 
 
 


Posted By: Thor
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2008 at 3:26pm
Originally posted by Jimbo Jimbo wrote:

I find it rather disturbing myself when people say God "speaks to them".
 
How in the hell do they know if it's God speaking to them or their own mind telling  them what they want to hear? Or even what they don't want to hear?
 
The whole idea is absurd.
 
 
I'll agree with that.  I'd rather they look at that for what it is---looking into their own selves, and finding the moral answer there, which may very well be one that their faith has instilled in them.
 
 


Posted By: Jimbo
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2008 at 3:28pm
True. But the day when New Yorkers tire of portraying themselves as quintessential New Yorkers is nowhere in the foreseeable future.
 
 


-------------
...the ads take aim and lay their claim to the heart and the soul of the spender
Jackson Browne - The Pretender

C'mon, man!
Joe Biden - 46th President of the United States


Posted By: Jimbo
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2008 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

 
Originally posted by Jimbo Jimbo wrote:

I find it rather disturbing myself when people say God "speaks to them".
 
How in the hell do they know if it's God speaking to them or their own mind telling  them what they want to hear? Or even what they don't want to hear?
 
The whole idea is absurd.
 
I'll agree with that.  I'd rather they look at that for what it is---looking into their own selves, and finding the moral answer there, which may very well be one that their faith has instilled in them.
 
Absolutely. And I'd venture to guess that most people of faith probably see it that way too. But as with anything else, there is that group who for whatever reason... lack of intellect or common sense or whatever, have to take things literally & claim that God actually puts words into their heads as if in conversation not realizing that they're making other people  think that religious people are all goofy.
 
I have always felt that there are plenty of intelligent people who also possess religious faith, but you just don't hear a lot out of those people because they are the ones who tend to keep it to themselves as they should & refrain from being so vocal about it.
 
 


-------------
...the ads take aim and lay their claim to the heart and the soul of the spender
Jackson Browne - The Pretender

C'mon, man!
Joe Biden - 46th President of the United States


Posted By: Thor
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2008 at 3:51pm
I know two Christian preachers, and neither of them are nutty.  I think the people who take things so literally are simply looking for something to follow, and religion seems easy enough.  The louder they are, the more they feel like they "believe".  To actually have to look for a less literal meaning to their beliefs, would require their own thought---which is NOT the purpose of such people, whose intentions are simply to belong to something that they see as telling them what to do.  I think a lot of these people don't otherwise have it in themselves to know right from wrong.  This is why some of the most zealous of all people, have previously led lives they needed to be "saved" from.
 
 
 


Posted By: Jimbo
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2008 at 4:17pm
So true. It's just an inescapable fact that religion tends to attract people with problems they created themselves, then couldn't solve so they buy into the idea that Jesus is the next miracle cure-all for everything & all they have to do is start spouting off some basic tenets of faith without thinking for themselves which, as you said they often times lack the ability to do anyway. Which is likely what got them into the situation where they needed to go looking for a crutch to prop themselves up to begin with.
 
The unfair thing is that the rest of the faithful get branded by the ones who stand out the most, which unfortunately are the goof balls.
 
But the same is true in any ideology, be it political or otherwise.
 
Liberals are all branded as moonbat kooks based on the actions of well meaning simpletons just as conservatives are branded as ignorant rednecks based on the actions of true-believer zealots.
 
The legitimate followers & practitioners of any ideology lie where the core of anything is supposed to lie. In the center.
 


-------------
...the ads take aim and lay their claim to the heart and the soul of the spender
Jackson Browne - The Pretender

C'mon, man!
Joe Biden - 46th President of the United States


Posted By: Irishman
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2008 at 4:43pm
Originally posted by Jimbo Jimbo wrote:

Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

 But, whereas Maher seems basically respectful , Behar comes across to me as snide, condescending, sarcastic, dismissive, and superior.
 
I think that's just her trying to be the "typical New Yorker".
 
In other words, her "shtick".
 
 
 
 
Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

Yeah, probably.  But that's so old.  It's even more cliche than Jeff Foxworthy, who at least mocks redneckery as much as he celebrates it.
 
 
Being an obnoxious Noo Yawkah, isn't Behar's 'shtick'...it's her personality.
With Foxworthy, you at least have a sense that he's not really the dumb hick he portrays in his act.
 


Posted By: Irishman
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2008 at 4:44pm
Originally posted by Jimbo Jimbo wrote:

True. But the day when New Yorkers tire of portraying themselves as quintessential New Yorkers is nowhere in the foreseeable future.
 
 
 
So? You want we should fuhgeddaboutit, or what?LOL


Posted By: Irishman
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2008 at 5:00pm
Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

Originally posted by Spicy_Meatball Spicy_Meatball wrote:

 
I hardly think that my being amused at the people who take the bible's more ridiculous "stories" as truth is being "hateful".   So spare me your "maddy faced" smilie because using it shows you have the same intolerance you accused me of.   Some of us do not believe in the utter nonsense written and re-written by supersititious, ancient, and probably very drunk people. Belly of a whale, pillars of salt, arks with a pair of every animal on it,  aged women giving birth.  Yep sorry...it frightens me to think people believe in these things but won't allow their kids to participate in Halloween activities!  But I will say the bible is a great work of fiction!  Sadly though most religious people I know have never read it.  Wink 
 
LOLLOL
 
Spicy, I don't think you'll find too many Christians who believe that stuff literally.  Where have you been getting your knowledge of Christianity---from The View?  LOL
 
Unless you at least have some knowledge of Christianity or bother to look this stuff up, I don't get your "utter nonsense" comment.  Wink
 
 
 
 
I'll just say that atheism and atheists don't bother me...except when they get as fanatical and fiercely protective of their viewpoint as certain religious people do.
The 'nonsensical, superstitious, or very drunk people' comment tells me that 'Spicy' either doesn't know any religious people...or only knows the wrong (stereotypical) kind.
I don't care for lumping all Christians in with a few of the more extreme, generally midwestern or southern-based  so-called 'fundamentalist' congregations(especially Fred Phelps, whose mob doesn't even deserve to be called a 'congregation').
It's easy for an idea to look good 'on paper', but be twisted when it's actually put into practice...it's true not just of religion, but also political theory.
 
 
 
Quote So true. It's just an inescapable fact that religion tends to attract people with problems they created themselves, then couldn't solve so they buy into the idea that Jesus is the next miracle cure-all for everything & all they have to do is start spouting off some basic tenets of faith without thinking for themselves which, as you said they often times lack the ability to do anyway. Which is likely what got them into the situation where they needed to go looking for a crutch to prop themselves up to begin with.
 
The unfair thing is that the rest of the faithful get branded by the ones who stand out the most, which unfortunately are the goof balls.
 
But the same is true in any ideology, be it political or otherwise.
 
Liberals are all branded as moonbat kooks based on the actions of well meaning simpletons just as conservatives are branded as ignorant rednecks based on the actions of true-believer zealots.
 
The legitimate followers & practitioners of any ideology lie where the core of anything is supposed to lie. In the center.
 
Exactly. Unfortunately, debating from the center doesn't always make for thrilling discussions on the internet...not 'extreme' enough for some people!Confused
 
 
 
 


Posted By: Thor
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2008 at 5:22pm
Originally posted by Irishman Irishman wrote:

 
Being an obnoxious Noo Yawkah, isn't Behar's 'shtick'...it's her personality.
With Foxworthy, you at least have a sense that he's not really the dumb hick he portrays in his act.
 
 
Another slight variation on that theme:
 
I've known a lot of comedians, and have known some whose schticks became their personalities.  It's as if they've gotten more positive reaction from their on-stage persona than from their actual personalities...and so that's what they adopt even off-stage.  Or maybe they feel stronger or something with their new "strong" persona.
 
Such people are the ones who are always "on".
 
 
 


Posted By: Jimbo
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2008 at 5:49pm
Originally posted by Irishman Irishman wrote:

Unfortunately, debating from the center doesn't always make for thrilling discussions on the internet...not 'extreme' enough for some people!Confused 
 
Yeah, centrism is boring.
 
I can't even stand listening to it even though I sort of come from that place myself.
 
I'm left of center, but not far left, & even I can't bear hearing people say "you both make good points" everytime two people disagree.
 
No...... usually one of them is flat wrong.
 
Coincidentally enough, that is always whoever I'm arguing against.
 
 
 
 


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...the ads take aim and lay their claim to the heart and the soul of the spender
Jackson Browne - The Pretender

C'mon, man!
Joe Biden - 46th President of the United States


Posted By: Irishman
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2008 at 6:11pm
Hmmm..Me too!LOL


Posted By: Skippy
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2008 at 12:50am
Originally posted by Spicy_Meatball Spicy_Meatball wrote:

Originally posted by Skibibbles Skibibbles wrote:

Originally posted by Spicy_Meatball Spicy_Meatball wrote:

Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

Originally posted by HollyRock HollyRock wrote:

 

 
My apologies to the Republicans who may be reading this.  I don't hate you, specifically.  But Elizabeth Hasselbeck, on The View, isn't doing your party any favors.
 
I want her to just shut up. Angry
 
Don't feel bad.  I find Joy Behar to be a foul, stupid pig.  And talk about visually repulsive...
 
 
 
 
 
Shocked  Bit harsh there, Thor?  Do you watch "The View" daily?  She's actually one of the brighter bulbs on the panel.  I watch just for Joy's seering comments.  She adds spice to the show.  As does Whoopi.  "Scary" Shephard is just too ridiculous to be true.  She actually has to stop and think whether the earth is round or flat, and actually believes the story of Noah's Ark!  LOLLOLLOL
 
 
 
There you go again with your hateful intolerance towards religionAngry
 
I hardly think that my being amused at the people who take the bible's more ridiculous "stories" as truth is being "hateful".   So spare me your "maddy faced" smilie because using it shows you have the same intolerance you accused me of.   Some of us do not believe in the utter nonsense written and re-written by supersititious, ancient, and probably very drunk people. Belly of a whale, pillars of salt, arks with a pair of every animal on it,  aged women giving birth.  Yep sorry...it frightens me to think people believe in these things but won't allow their kids to participate in Halloween activities!  But I will say the bible is a great work of fiction!  Sadly though most religious people I know have never read it.  Wink 
 
 
Thank you for reinforcing the point of my last post!Tongue


Posted By: Spicy_Meatball
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2008 at 1:53am
Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

Originally posted by Spicy_Meatball Spicy_Meatball wrote:

 
I hardly think that my being amused at the people who take the bible's more ridiculous "stories" as truth is being "hateful".   So spare me your "maddy faced" smilie because using it shows you have the same intolerance you accused me of.   Some of us do not believe in the utter nonsense written and re-written by supersititious, ancient, and probably very drunk people. Belly of a whale, pillars of salt, arks with a pair of every animal on it,  aged women giving birth.  Yep sorry...it frightens me to think people believe in these things but won't allow their kids to participate in Halloween activities!  But I will say the bible is a great work of fiction!  Sadly though most religious people I know have never read it.  Wink 
 
LOLLOL
 
 
Unless you at least have some knowledge of Christianity or bother to look this stuff up, I don't get your "utter nonsense" comment.  Wink
 
 
 
I think I was quite clear with my opinion of why/how the bible was written and by whom.    I don't have, or need, a source of information for my own opinion.  Wink   Don't assume that because I do not believe in these things, that I am ignorant of religions.  I actually enjoy watching and listening to intelligent people challenging what was written in the bible instead of just accepting these fables.   And yes...I was once a "Christian".  But when I realized that being a Christian meant I had to believe the tale of a son born to a virgin who was impregnated by a ghost, I lost interest.  That same fable exists in other faiths and some long before Jesus came along.   I do believe Jesus was real.   But I will never buy how he came to be born because as an intelligent woman, I KNOW how a baby is made.  Tongue


-------------
"Mama Mia! That's a spicy meatball!!" ~~Alka Seltzer Ad


Posted By: Jimbo
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2008 at 1:58am
Originally posted by Spicy_Meatball Spicy_Meatball wrote:

I do believe Jesus was real.   But I will never buy how he came to be born because as an intelligent woman, I KNOW how a baby is made.  Tongue
 
I'm not questioning your intelligence, but truthfully, one doesn't need to be intelligent or even a woman to possess that little bit of knowledge. Wink
 
 


-------------
...the ads take aim and lay their claim to the heart and the soul of the spender
Jackson Browne - The Pretender

C'mon, man!
Joe Biden - 46th President of the United States


Posted By: Spicy_Meatball
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2008 at 2:09am
Originally posted by Skibibbles Skibibbles wrote:

Originally posted by Spicy_Meatball Spicy_Meatball wrote:

Originally posted by Skibibbles Skibibbles wrote:

Originally posted by Spicy_Meatball Spicy_Meatball wrote:

Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

Originally posted by HollyRock HollyRock wrote:

 

 
My apologies to the Republicans who may be reading this.  I don't hate you, specifically.  But Elizabeth Hasselbeck, on The View, isn't doing your party any favors.
 
I want her to just shut up. Angry
 
Don't feel bad.  I find Joy Behar to be a foul, stupid pig.  And talk about visually repulsive...
 
 
 
 
 
Shocked  Bit harsh there, Thor?  Do you watch "The View" daily?  She's actually one of the brighter bulbs on the panel.  I watch just for Joy's seering comments.  She adds spice to the show.  As does Whoopi.  "Scary" Shephard is just too ridiculous to be true.  She actually has to stop and think whether the earth is round or flat, and actually believes the story of Noah's Ark!  LOLLOLLOL
 
 
 
There you go again with your hateful intolerance towards religionAngry
 
I hardly think that my being amused at the people who take the bible's more ridiculous "stories" as truth is being "hateful".   So spare me your "maddy faced" smilie because using it shows you have the same intolerance you accused me of.   Some of us do not believe in the utter nonsense written and re-written by supersititious, ancient, and probably very drunk people. Belly of a whale, pillars of salt, arks with a pair of every animal on it,  aged women giving birth.  Yep sorry...it frightens me to think people believe in these things but won't allow their kids to participate in Halloween activities!  But I will say the bible is a great work of fiction!  Sadly though most religious people I know have never read it.  Wink 
 
 
Thank you for reinforcing the point of my last post!Tongue
 
I did nothing of the sort.  If you look back over the thread you "attacked" me for a comment I made about Sherri Shepherd's beliefs...not MINE.   You would like to think of me as someone who has horns atop my head because I think it's interesting to challenge these stories and to express the fact that I personally think they are preposterous.  I have freedom of speech.  I don't have to believe these things and I can say so.  I really have no "hateful" ideas at all.  My ideas are  just not accepted by you, so you call my opinions "hateful".   That's a tactic used by lots of religious people.   And if you look at the state of the world, you'll find it solves nothing.    You've done little to support your case, which is that you know these stories of the bible, no matter how outlandish and impossible, are truth.  ?   I'd ask you for some proof or some other comments to support your case, but can I assume you'll say "I have faith!!"  Because that's what a majority of people who have no explanation for things tend to say.  At least in my experience.  One thing I know for sure is that discussing religion with people who do not like/accept people who do not like/accept religion is generally futile.   Wink


-------------
"Mama Mia! That's a spicy meatball!!" ~~Alka Seltzer Ad


Posted By: Asnotseenontv
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2008 at 4:11am
^ it is kinda dickheaded to go around saying these things when you know there are people here who are Christians like I. That said, I don't take all the bible literally like a few do.


Posted By: HollyRock
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2008 at 1:14pm
Originally posted by Asnotseenontv Asnotseenontv wrote:

^ it is kinda dickheaded to go around saying these things when you know there are people here who are Christians like I. That said, I don't take all the bible literally like a few do.
 
I may be wrong, but it doesn't seem very Christian to be calling someone else "dickheaded"; and...she's a female....
 
 
Originally posted by Spicy_Meatball Spicy_Meatball wrote:

...(to Skib)You've done little to support your case, which is that you know these stories of the bible, no matter how outlandish and impossible, are truth.  ?   I'd ask you for some proof or some other comments to support your case, but can I assume you'll say "I have faith!!"  Because that's what a majority of people who have no explanation for things tend to say.  At least in my experience.  One thing I know for sure is that discussing religion with people who do not like/accept people who do not like/accept religion is generally futile.   Wink
 
That's what faith is - believing in something you can't see; or believing in something beyond natural reason.  It's not an indication of ignorance, however - many of the greatest minds throughout history have, at some point, relied on their faith.
 
Faith and Religion are not the same animal - I think Spicy you were trying to say that, as well?


-------------
Let's try not to be boring, mkay?


Posted By: Irishman
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2008 at 4:23pm
Good point, Holly. I think too many people have a tendency to equate faith and religion, and lump both of those in with 'ignorance'.
As for what Spicy was trying to say...the floor is hers.


Posted By: Thor
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2008 at 4:36pm
Deepak Chopra says:
"God created Religion and then the Devil came and organized it."
 
 


Posted By: Asnotseenontv
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2008 at 9:12pm
As far as I'm concerned, true Christianity  is not a religion, it's faith. If rituals are clinged to, then it's a religion and not a true faith.


Posted By: Irishman
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2008 at 9:19pm
'Faith' is often misused to mean 'religion'.


Posted By: Skippy
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2008 at 11:10pm
Originally posted by HollyRock HollyRock wrote:

 
I may be wrong, but it doesn't seem very Christian to be calling someone else "dickheaded"; and...she's a female....
 
 
 
Not believing in God is not very Christian either!


Posted By: Spicy_Meatball
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2008 at 1:26am
Originally posted by Asnotseenontv Asnotseenontv wrote:

^ it is kinda dickheaded to go around saying these things when you know there are people here who are Christians like I. That said, I don't take all the bible literally like a few do.
 
You have to have at least 500 posts before you can call me or my posts "dickheaded".   Tongue  That said....this is a discussion group.   My thoughts are that if you're going to be offended at some topics or are not capable of exploring the ideas of others then perhaps refrain from the topics altogther.    I have no problem whatsoever being the skunk at the garden party when it comes to expressing my ideas on things.   I am very interested in what makes believers (religious, faithful...whatever you call it) tick.  Funny thing is,  instead of them coming back and saying "This is how I know the story of Adam and Eve is absolutely true...." and offering examples to make a non-believer like me perhaps understand more (such as two people having two sons and from this family all the peoples of the entire world sprouted?)  .....they who don't like to challenge anything about religion tend to call the other person a "dickhead".  See what I mean?? Wink  Either that or they'll say "I was taught that and that's why it's true goddamit!!!"  LOL      Trust me ...I am no virgin to the occasional religious discussion on a message board!  I have even moderated them.  Anyway... I am looking forward to Bill Mahr's new movie on the topic just as I always looked forward to religious comments coming from the great George Carlin.  George will alway be one of many of my own personal "gods" as well as anyone else who stands up against what's considered "normal".   Who can answer me this:  What religion is God?? 


-------------
"Mama Mia! That's a spicy meatball!!" ~~Alka Seltzer Ad


Posted By: Asnotseenontv
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2008 at 1:42am
Most of the old testament is symbolic. Simple as that. So if you want instantly gratifying answers...you're outta luck. I apologize for calling you names, however I just feel pressured because we religious/faithful people are being attacked from all angles, whether it be TV dramas, books, movies or otherwise and I feel the need to strike back. I can't just stand back and let you guys spit on us constantly. We have to defend ourselves too. I'm sorry OK. Just stop stressing me out.


Posted By: Hootman
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2008 at 2:13am
Asnotseenontv,

You joined last Sunday and have 28 posts.  This may not be the forum for you if you're already stressed out.


Posted By: Spicy_Meatball
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2008 at 2:18am
Originally posted by Asnotseenontv Asnotseenontv wrote:

Most of the old testament is symbolic. Simple as that. So if you want instantly gratifying answers...you're outta luck. I apologize for calling you names, however I just feel pressured because we religious/faithful people are being attacked from all angles, whether it be TV dramas, books, movies or otherwise and I feel the need to strike back. I can't just stand back and let you guys spit on us constantly. We have to defend ourselves too. I'm sorry OK. Just stop stressing me out.
 
Well no...sorry.  I am not going to stop posting when I see something interesing on which to comment  because it "stresses you out".   If you're really faithful then you should feel no pressure to "strike back" at people who challenge the writings of the bible or even those who challenge religion in the media.   And who are "you guys"?  People who don't stand back and accept everything you believe??   Doesn't really work that way.  I am always interested to hear why people believe what they do.  I don't have respect for people who try to stifle my inquisitive nature when their own arguments, or lack thereof, run dry.   But no worries on the "dickheaded" thing.  I've been called worse.  But keep in mind I don't think that was something Jesus would do.  Cool 


-------------
"Mama Mia! That's a spicy meatball!!" ~~Alka Seltzer Ad


Posted By: Asnotseenontv
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2008 at 2:22am
Those are hard questions your asking there girl. Not ones most people can answer, even "wise" people like Richard Dawkins and Chris Hitchens. That's like asking an atheist how they know God doesn't exist.


Posted By: Thor
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2008 at 2:32am
I'd actually be more stressed out by some forum that's only about inconsequential things, or one that only consists of like-minded people.  CIH is a good release valve for me.  Yeah, the talk about commercials attracted me to this forum originally, but had the talk never gone off into other things and/or more serious matters, I'm not sure I would've stayed. 
 
I think asnotseenontv is cut out for this forum, as are all the members who are ready, willing, and able to discuss things.
 
One thing that makes CIH so good, is that it's neutral politically, religiously, socially etc.  Its very crux attracts people of diverse thought.  I mean, most people have a thing or two to say about commercials they hate.  It's not geared towards anyone in particular, and as such, it attracts all sorts of thought.  
 
 
 


Posted By: Asnotseenontv
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2008 at 2:37am
Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

I'd actually be more stressed out by some forum that's only about inconsequential things, or one that only consists of like-minded people.  CIH is a good release valve for me.  Yeah, the talk about commercials attracted me to this forum originally, but had the talk never gone off into other things and/or more serious matters, I'm not sure I would've stayed. 
 
I think asnotseenontv is cut out for this forum, as are all the members who are ready, willing, and able to discuss things.
 
One thing that makes CIH so good, is that it's neutral politically, religiously, socially etc.  Its very crux attracts people of diverse thought.  I mean, most people have a thing or two to say about commercials they hate.  It's not geared towards anyone in particular, and as such, it attracts all sorts of thought.  
 
 
 
 
There are all kinds of people with different beliefs and I think Thor(cool username BTWClap) is exactly right.
 
Now Spicy, to give you an honest answer as why I believe Jesus was born of a virgin: it's not too farfetched. Virgin births are all over nature, even in some mammals. So why couldn't it happen for a human?


Posted By: Spicy_Meatball
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2008 at 2:39am
Originally posted by Asnotseenontv Asnotseenontv wrote:

Those are hard questions your asking there girl. Not ones most people can answer, even "wise" people like Richard Dawkins and Chris Hitchens.
 
Read their books, have you?  Both were fabulous  I like to believe that what they are saying is really more "wise" than what comes out of an ancient book that has been misinterpreted and thoroughly abused for thousands of years.  The ministers and preachers and other religious folks who take the words of the bible literally in an attempt to spread hatred and violence just aren't my cuppa tea. 


-------------
"Mama Mia! That's a spicy meatball!!" ~~Alka Seltzer Ad


Posted By: Asnotseenontv
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2008 at 2:44am
Now Spicy, to give you an honest answer as why I believe Jesus was born of a virgin: it's not too farfetched. Virgin births are all over nature, even in some mammals. So why couldn't it happen for a human?


Posted By: Thor
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2008 at 2:47am
Thanks, asnotseenontv.
 
I learn a lot of things as I go along.  So, I just looked up Virgin Birth of Jesus in Wikipedia.  The virgin birth of Jesus is not seen by religious people as the same thing as virgin birth in other species.  In other species, it's called parthogenesis, whereas Christians view the virgin birth of Jesus as a miracle.
 
In Christian and Islamic belief, the virgin birth of Jesus was not a case of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthogenesis - parthogenesis (the scientific name for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_birth - virgin birth ), such as occurs naturally in some species, and has been artificially induced even in mammals, but generally produces only female offspring. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_birth_of_Jesus#cite_note-42 - [43] Like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection_of_Jesus - the story of Jesus' resurrection , the conception of Jesus is seen as a strictly http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle - miraculous occurrence, not explainable as a natural process, no matter how exceptional, or as a scientific achievement. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_birth_of_Jesus#cite_note-43 - [44] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_birth_of_Jesus#cite_note-44 - [45] In fact, scientists believe that not even the most advanced techniques could induce parthenogenesis in humans, especially for producing male offspring. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_birth_of_Jesus#cite_note-45 - [46] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_birth_of_Jesus#cite_note-46 - [47] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_birth_of_Jesus#cite_note-47 - [48] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_birth_of_Jesus#cite_note-48 - [49]
 
 


Posted By: Spicy_Meatball
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2008 at 2:56am
Originally posted by Asnotseenontv Asnotseenontv wrote:

 
Now Spicy, to give you an honest answer as why I believe Jesus was born of a virgin: it's not too farfetched. Virgin births are all over nature, even in some mammals. So why couldn't it happen for a human?
 
So what you're saying is that Jesus was possibly not born of virgin and man-ghost but could have been a result of parthenogenesis?  Hmmm!   I'd tend to believe in the latter rather than the former but since this story of woman impregnated by "ghostly creature" has been repeated in many other faiths I maintain my position on it (see my other post back yonder).    I am not sure how many cases of human parthenogenesis have occured in the last 2008 years.  My guess is...ZERO. Wink   But I assure you, it's a great alibi!  Many religious scholars believe that "Mary" was actually raped by a Roman soldier and was impregnated in that way and that her baby was most likely born in April and not December.  Shepherds didn't watch their flocks at night outdoors  in December.  It would have been too cold.   


-------------
"Mama Mia! That's a spicy meatball!!" ~~Alka Seltzer Ad


Posted By: Skippy
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2008 at 3:28am
Originally posted by Spicy_Meatball Spicy_Meatball wrote:

Read their books, have you?  Both were fabulous   
 
 
There you go again bringing up those so-called ficticious storybooks that are used to brainwash people...


Posted By: Skippy
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2008 at 3:33am
Originally posted by Spicy_Meatball Spicy_Meatball wrote:

  I don't have respect for people who try to stifle my inquisitive nature when their own arguments, or lack thereof, run dry.   
 
 
But when an atheist does it, then it is called "enlightenment"


Posted By: Skippy
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2008 at 3:37am
Originally posted by Asnotseenontv Asnotseenontv wrote:

Now Spicy, to give you an honest answer as why I believe Jesus was born of a virgin: it's not too farfetched. Virgin births are all over nature, even in some mammals. So why couldn't it happen for a human?
 
 
You keep standing up for what you believe in. Religious atheists (oxymoron) are set in their ways to stifle any type of free religious expression. They are really insecure about their lack of belief, because otherwise they really wouldn't care what you think. They are really doing exactly what they despise others for doing-"Shoving their agenda down your throat"
 
 
 
 


Posted By: Skippy
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2008 at 3:39am

I hereby nominate the person who posts the last post in this thread (after this post):

 

The official CIH Moron of the Month for October.

It's been awhile since we picked a Moron of the MonthShocked Who's up for it?
 
(If you want to pray for me to get some intellect, you won't have to. My IQ is just a few points shy of genius.)
 
Our moron is: 


Posted By: Spicy_Meatball
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2008 at 4:17am
Originally posted by Skibibbles Skibibbles wrote:

I hereby nominate the person who posts the last post in this thread (after this post):

 

The official CIH Moron of the Month for October.

It's been awhile since we picked a Moron of the MonthShocked Who's up for it?
 
If I prayed...which I don't....I'd seriously pray you'd get some intellect.  Wink


-------------
"Mama Mia! That's a spicy meatball!!" ~~Alka Seltzer Ad


Posted By: Ad nauseous
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2008 at 4:52am
....

-------------
One good thing about TV-you could always turn it off


Posted By: DollMaker66
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2008 at 8:40am
 
Don't feel bad.  I find Joy Behar to be a foul, stupid pig.  And talk about visually repulsive...
 
 [/QUOTE]
 
Shocked  Bit harsh there, Thor?  Do you watch "The View" daily? 
[/QUOTE]
 
No, and no.
 
Joy Behar is actually even less appealing than Rita Cosby.  I picture them both hanging out at the Embassy Suites happy hour, getting drunk on wine, laughing loudly, and hooking up with any 60 y/o man with a wedding ring and a Rolex watch.
 
 
 
 
[/QUOTE]
 
Hmmm.  Well Joy doesn't pretend to be a journalist or court reporter.  She's just a stand-up comic and writer who makes for an interesting host or co-host.  Joy's been married and divorced and has been a relationship with a nice man for over 20 years.  If you don't watch "The View" or really know who Joy Behar is, I just don't get the "foul, stupid pig" comment.   She isn't any of those things.  
[/QUOTE]
 
 
I agree, Spicy.  I like Joy, Whoopi too.  Sherri is usually a bit bubble-headed, but is at least good for a chuckle or two occasionally.   That Elizabeth though...she's the most insulated out-of-touch-with-reality individual I've ever seen.   I just LOVE when Whoopi and Joy put her in her place...even Barbara has to almost practically scold her sometimes.  I don't know why she keeps coming back...though I do enjoy yelling "YOU STUPID IDIOT" almost everytime she says something out of left field that shows she doesn't know what the f*** she's talking about.  LOL


Posted By: jeroboam
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2008 at 4:43pm
The bible exists for one purpose.
To share God's desire to restore a relationship with his creation.
In the Old Testament it the preparation for God's promise of a Messiah
and the New Testament is the prophecy of that Messiah's arrival being fulfilled and then a mantle given to his believers.
It does NOTHING to defend itself, tout itself as the ONE true book and it offers to "proof" in its words because as it was being written (by scholars and men of pious and often fearful faith) there was an assumption that all who read this word or were shared the word were believers.

So the bible never gives a clear and concise argument for itself.

It didn't need to.
I am sure the men who wrote the words and poems and stories they all knew from passed down stories and sessions were very precise in sharing what they knew in their hearts to be "true".
There are occasions where wicked men have tried to use scripture to alter things and fit it to their desires. King James had no intention to "liberate" the people by sharing a translation of the bible. He did so to control them. He also instructed them to alter words to fit his doctrines.
Something which failed and in turn the King James errors are non substantial to the text's original intent and has little effect on the story of Christ (the only real purpose of scripture in Christianity)
Given some doctrines in the last 600 or so years have risen from some of KJ's errors (Jesus name only doctrine, the rapture)

But in all in spite of Jame's ulterior motives, truth was made known to the Christian commoner.

Christians as we see them today, as in the ones who get the press and try and toot their loud weird horns, those are a new breed.
They are the ones to profess to be bringing the nation back under God's rightful purpose and such.
Sadly if any of these "christians" were to go back in time and meet their so called "forefathers" they would be forced to rethink what it means.
When you have Franklin, a deist mason who dabbled in witchcraft.
Or Lincoln a known spiritist who loved a good seance
one has to think again about how pious these men are.
It was the late 1800s that gave us a lot of the doctrines we know and love to hate today.
And the turn of the century, dozens of these "awakening" moments were harnessed and turned in to the modern charismatic doctrines.

It is a complex evolution and one can't blindly label all Christians as whack jobs, or a belief in Christianity as a one-size-fits-all straight jacket.

No faith or world view can be passed off that easily.
Even among known cults, there are moderate levels and variations of devotion and interpretation.








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