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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ad nauseous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 3:53am
Originally posted by Moochamoocha Moochamoocha wrote:

Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

Feminists are "NOW" pissed-off over the violence in this commercial.  They say that Tim tackling his mother promotes violence against women.
 
from Terry O'Neill, president of NOW:
 
"I am blown away at the celebration of the violence against women in it. That's what comes across to me even more strongly than the anti-abortion message. I myself am a survivor of domestic violence, and I don't find it charming. I think CBS should be ashamed of itself."
 
No statement issued about the violence against Betty White in her commercial. 
 
 


It's not the violence they're really complaining about. You KNOW they wanted to complain about the whole abortion issue, stating that it's a woman's right to choose, blah blah blah. Well, Mrs. Tebow chose to have her baby instead of kill it...doesn't that constitute as a woman's right to choose?


Good point well said. Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 3:58am
Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

You might wanna do some research on the translation and meaning of "Thou shalt not kill" (has to do with killing versus murder).  In addition, the Bible found just grounds for numerous wars.  It never said that war was never justified.
 
Or at least that's the right wing's cockeyed twist on it.
 
A convenient misinterpretation for the benefit of the NRA gun wackos who want to blow people away & call themselves Christians at the same time.
 
Jesus never condoned violence or killing of any kind, whether it be for retribution, self-defense or whatever.
 
Every Christian faith for centuries has been based on the idea that Christianity espoused complete non-violence & that "Thou shalt not kill" means exactly that.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 4:00am
Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

Well, supposedly the Bible refers to the unborn as humans and "children".  And combined with "Thou shalt not kill", I can't see how a minister or priest or rabbi could put forth the pro-choice sentiment.  Otherwise, from what I understand, the Bible doesn't say anything about abortion per sé.  The only pro-choice argument I've ever heard from the standpoint of the Bible is that God gives us free will.  But that argument doesn't mean he approves.  We have the free will to do all sorts of things---it doesn't mean it's all OK.
 
So, from a religious or Biblical standpoint, I don't see how abortion could be considered OK.
 
 
 
 
 
I thought you just said in your other post that "Thou shalt not kill" only applies to murder.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 4:01am
You have no idea what you're talking about, Jimbo.
 
Do you really think that Jesus said that if someone was trying to murder you, you have to let them?
 
And I didn't realize that St. Thomas Aquinas, among others, was an "NRA gun wacko".
 
Do some research.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 4:05am
Originally posted by Jimbo Jimbo wrote:

Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

Well, supposedly the Bible refers to the unborn as humans and "children".  And combined with "Thou shalt not kill", I can't see how a minister or priest or rabbi could put forth the pro-choice sentiment.  Otherwise, from what I understand, the Bible doesn't say anything about abortion per sé.  The only pro-choice argument I've ever heard from the standpoint of the Bible is that God gives us free will.  But that argument doesn't mean he approves.  We have the free will to do all sorts of things---it doesn't mean it's all OK.
 
So, from a religious or Biblical standpoint, I don't see how abortion could be considered OK.
 
 
 
 
 
I thought you just said in your other post that "Thou shalt not kill" only applies to murder.
 
 
It's not what I said; it's what others have said. 
 
But I don't get your point.  Many say that abortion is murder.  It's certainly not war or self-defense.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ad nauseous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 4:08am
I agree with Thor, which is rare. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 4:09am
Oh wait...I think I get your point, Jimbo.  Nevertheless, you'd have to do research on the translation of the original Hebrew text.  Supposedly, "Thou shalt not kill" really means "Thou shalt not murder".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 4:16am
Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

You have no idea what you're talking about, Jimbo.
 
Do you really think that Jesus said that if someone was trying to murder you, you have to let them?
 
And I didn't realize that St. Thomas Aquinas, among others, was an "NRA gun wacko".
 
Do some research.
 
 
So you're telling me that over a thousand years of Christian teaching has been wrong & it took you to come along & set them straight??? ShockedLOLLOL
 
Gimme a break!!!!
 
Jesus said "Turn the other cheek". That meant that if someone commits violence against you, your faith in Him should be enough to protect you. And if they kill you, as a good Christian, you will spend eternity in Heaven.
 
IOW.... staying alive on Earth is supposed to have no meaning for the true Christian, Einstein.
 
I can't believe I have to explain this.
 
You obviously don't "get" the concept of Christian faith, Thor.
 
YOU do some research.
 
But this time, not on some goofy right wing propaganda website.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ad nauseous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 4:19am
I agree with Jimbo he GETS it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 4:23am
Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

Oh wait...I think I get your point, Jimbo.  Nevertheless, you'd have to do research on the translation of the original Hebrew text.  Supposedly, "Thou shalt not kill" really means "Thou shalt not murder".
 
Show me where in the New Testament Jesus admonished his followers something along the lines of.... "If thou art assaulted by thine enemy, counter thine enemy's assault with a swift kick to the balls followed up with a left uppercut then a right cross to the temple. This should knocketh his ass out sufficiently. If thine enemy tries to slayest thou, popeth a cap in his ass with thine nine."
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ad nauseous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 4:26am
Originally posted by Jimbo Jimbo wrote:

Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

Oh wait...I think I get your point, Jimbo.  Nevertheless, you'd have to do research on the translation of the original Hebrew text.  Supposedly, "Thou shalt not kill" really means "Thou shalt not murder".
 
Show me where in the New Testament Jesus admonished his followers something along the lines of.... "If thou art assaulted by thine enemy, counter thine enemy's assault with a swift kick to the balls followed up with a left uppercut then a right cross to the temple. This should knocketh his ass out sufficiently. If thine enemy tries to slay thou, popeth a cap in his ass with thine nine."
 
 


LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 4:26am
Originally posted by Ad nauseous Ad nauseous wrote:

I agree with Thor, which is rare. 
 
Originally posted by Ad nauseous Ad nauseous wrote:

I agree with Jimbo he GETS it. 
 
Why do I get the idea that you're playing both sides of the fence just to egg us on? WinkLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Synesthesia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 4:34am
Ugh. I hate arguing about abortion. I find myself in between pro-life and pro-choice but mostly I'm pro why not prevent abortion with decent sex education, even if it means having to give out condoms and teach something besides abstinence, which is not to say that you can't teach abstinence, it's just that telling teens and adults alike not to have sex is like herding cats and making them run an obstacle course. Ain't going to happen.
But I don't really CARE as much about fetuses as I do about children who are already born. I hate focus on the family because how can you go on and on about abortion and be for raising children using techniques that are not only outmoded but borderline abusive? Angry I despise that hypocritical organization.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 4:41am
I think abstinence should be taught as PART OF a larger program which would also include birth control & STD protection.
 
It should be an all encompassing program with an emphasis on abstinence.
 
IMO.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Synesthesia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 4:45am
Originally posted by Jimbo Jimbo wrote:

I think abstinence should be taught as PART OF a larger program which would also include birth control & STD protection.
 
It should be an all encompassing program with an emphasis on abstinence.
 
IMO.
 


Yeah, teens are too young to have sex anyway. I wasn't even thinking about that at that age.
But I was a strange kid. Folks just tend to be so... cagey about something that is natural and healthy. It's kind of depressing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 4:50am
Originally posted by Jimbo Jimbo wrote:

Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

You have no idea what you're talking about, Jimbo.
 
Do you really think that Jesus said that if someone was trying to murder you, you have to let them?
 
And I didn't realize that St. Thomas Aquinas, among others, was an "NRA gun wacko".
 
Do some research.
 
 
So you're telling me that over a thousand years of Christian teaching has been wrong & it took you to come along & set them straight??? ShockedLOLLOL
 
Gimme a break!!!!
 
Jesus said "Turn the other cheek". That meant that if someone commits violence against you, your faith in Him should be enough to protect you. And if they kill you, you will spend eternity in Heaven.
 
IOW.... staying alive on Earth is supposed to have no meaning for the true Christian, Einstein.
 
I can't believe I have to explain this.
 
You obviously don't "get" the concept of Christian faith, Thor.
 
YOU do some research.
 
But this time, not on some goofy right wing propaganda website.
 
As usual, you grossly oversimplify, taking the pop version of "Turn the other cheek".
 
Look at the interpretations of "Turn the other cheek".  From the "goofy right-wing website" known as Wikipedia:
 
Do you really think that Jesus believed we should allow ourselves to be overtaken by evil??  I highly doubt it.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 4:51am
Hey ladies!  Jesus said that if you're about to be raped, just lay back and take it.
 
Or was that Tex Antoine?
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 4:53am
Originally posted by Synesthesia Synesthesia wrote:

Originally posted by Jimbo Jimbo wrote:

I think abstinence should be taught as PART OF a larger program which would also include birth control & STD protection.
 
It should be an all encompassing program with an emphasis on abstinence.
 
IMO.
 


Yeah, teens are too young to have sex anyway. I wasn't even thinking about that at that age.
But I was a strange kid.
 
If you were a boy you would've been!!!! LOL
 
That's almost ALL my friends & I thought about!!!! Big%20smile
 
I remember around 12 y/o, riding our bikes up to the local drug store & heading for the magazine rack to sneak peeks at Playboy Magazine, which amazingly enough, they kept right out on the rack with the rest of the magazines.
 
I remember the first time we "saw it all".
 
WOW!!!!! Tongue
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 5:03am
Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

As usual, you grossly oversimplify, taking the pop version of "Turn the other cheek".
 
Look at the interpretations of "Turn the other cheek".  From the "goofy right-wing website" known as Wikipedia:
 
Do you really think that Jesus believed we should allow ourselves to be overtaken by evil??  I highly doubt it.
 
You miss the entire point of Christianity, Thor.
 
As a true Christian, you are not even supposed to be worried about your Earthly self. Being a Christian is SUPPOSED to be all about the SPIRIT. If you lower yourself to the level of those who would commit violence against you, how can your spirit be worthy of entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven?
 
Obviously, those teachings sound ridiculous in the context of today's world, & I certainly wouldn't turn the other cheek myself, but that's also why I've stated before & do so again, that there are no true Christians in the world today.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 5:18am

So, do you think that Jesus meant that if someone wants to murder your kid, you should let him...maybe give him your other child to kill, too?  I highly doubt it.  Jesus wasn't about supporting evil, as far as I know.  I think he was about countering it.

This is why I don't think "turn the other cheek" is a call to let people do whatever they want to you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Synesthesia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 5:22am
No, but it probably means not running around making the situation even worse. Even Jesus cracked the whip on folks desecrating the house  God, but he had a good reason for that.
He did, however, without malice or hatred, endured and suffered under the Romans.
So maybe it's more about not having malice and hatred? Knowing when to crack that whip and when to just turn the other cheek instead, but I say turn the cheek more than crack the whip on other people's cheeks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 5:54am
Originally posted by Synesthesia Synesthesia wrote:

So maybe it's more about not having malice and hatred? Knowing when to crack that whip and when to just turn the other cheek instead...
 
That's what I think, too.  'Cause Jesus also said to get a sword.
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Synesthesia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 6:14am
But it does help to not go around plucking out people's eyes.

Lest no one has any eyes and that would not be fun. It would make the internet less entertaining...

I lean a bit towards buddhism.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RichardCranium Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 3:09pm
Originally posted by Thor Thor wrote:

You might wanna do some research on the translation and meaning of "Thou shalt not kill" (has to do with killing versus murder).  In addition, the Bible found just grounds for numerous wars.  It never said that war was never justified.
 
 
 
I was always under the impression that killing innocent people was murder.
 
Perhaps your Bible is different than the ones I saw as an impressionable youth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2010 at 3:20pm
No. I'm just saying that it's not as simple and clearcut as you've been led to believe.  As I said, it's in the translation.
 
From the section "Thou shalt not kill", in Wikipedia:
 
The Old Testament's examples of killings sanctioned by God are often cited in defense of the view that "murder" is a more accurate translation. Additionally, the Hebrew word for "kill" is הרג (harog), while the Hebrew word for "murder" is רצח (retzach), which is found in the Ten Commandments לא תרצח (lo tirtzach). In the fullness of the Old Testament Exodus 20:13 is abundantly evidenced as prohibiting unjust killing, rather than a universal injunction against all killing, as retzach is never used in reference to the slaying of animals, nor the taking of life in war, while its most frequent use is in reference to involuntary manslaughter and secondarily for murderers.
 
 
 
I remember being taught the Ten Commandments as a kid in Catholic school.  But what I don't remember is going into any detailed studies of all the nuances, or really analyzing them at all.  Hell, I was what?  Seven years old maybe?  Seven year-olds don't do nuance and analysis.
 
I think the teachings of the Bible are very complex, and can't be taken as a series of sound bites.
 
 
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